Critical need

Those who know John Chandler admire his creativity and general situational savvy. He is well-read and communicates effectively and enthusiastically. It came as no particular surprise to anyone that upon Bob Dale's retirement Chandler was tapped to lead the Ray and Ann Spence Network established by Virginia Baptists as a means of connecting and training congregations and their leaders. I had the opportunity recently to sit down with John Chandler and talk with him briefly about RASNET and a new book he has written called Courageous Church Leadership: Conversations with Effective Practitioners.

White: First, let me congratulate you on being busy. You have a new job to figure out and a new book hot off the press! Let's start with RASNET. How would you describe what difference the Ray and Ann Spence Network can make in the ministry of the typical pastor?

Chandler: The premise behind RASNET is the same as the book: the right conversations have the power to transform. In fact, when you think about it, the biblical message is God's conversation with us. We call the Bible “The Word” and the message of the Bible is that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
On the church level, pastors become so focused on what they are doing that they quit talking to each other and therefore quit learning from each other. The shift in the tectonic plates has been a breakdown in conversation.

RASNET is a net, not a hook. It is not an attempt to tell pastors and churches what they should do but to catch them in a conversational net. In most cases, churches don't realize how much they really know.

I think I would ask pastors, “Are you interested in your church fulfilling its kingdom potential?” Assuming they do, I would then ask, “What are you going to do about it? Read a book? Go to a conference?” These are great things to do, but along with that I would ask, “How would you like to talk to other pastors who are where you are and who have been where you are? Would you like to hear from a pastor who saw a church of 60 grow to 120?”

White: How will RASNET do that?

Chandler: I was talking with someone the other day and we decided that rather than find a need and meet it, RASNET tries to find a meet and need it. RASNET wants to identify and fuel the peer-to-peer conversation through which leaders learn. We are trying to find the answers to our leadership challenges. What RASNET is trying to do is establish the premise that there are different kinds of knowledge. We want to make sure that practitioner-to-practitioner knowledge is a part of the equation. It would be great if I could sit down with three or four people who have a ministry affinity and talk about what worked and what was a dismal failure.

What if we could introduce these pastors to other pastors who have taken their churches from sleepy little country churches to dynamic regional churches?

I can see the day when RASNET will be able to bring together practitioners who can share both their struggles and their solutions with each other. RASNET will facilitate the sharing of ideas and values as well as practical information—“This is what we did and it worked! Or this is what we tried and it failed.”

I understand RASNET to be a great partner in getting leaders together in the conversations that will elevate ministerial leadership, transform congregations and change the world.

White: Tell me about the book. When did it come into your head?

Chandler:I was in Kentucky for a family wedding and thought, “While I'm here, I'm going to interview some people at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville and then go to Ginghamsburg Church in Tipp City, Ohio.” I also talked with some others. I then transcribed the interviews to put in my “3 Minutes” email and the Religious Herald. It was so well-received that someone, I honestly can't remember who it was, suggested that the content would make part of a good book.

My attempt in the book was to not so much say, “Here are the 12 experts who will tell you how to grow a church,” as to give examples of how to ask the pertinent questions of people who have achieved a measure of success in church life. I wanted to model the art of conversation for the reader.

White: What was the most common trait you discovered from the leaders you interviewed?

Chandler: A great find for me was the realization of how great leaders learn how to deal with criticism. Every leader has to learn to deal with it. Great leaders learn how to interpret criticism accurately. They learn what to do with criticism. They learn what to keep and what to throw away. Sometimes we need to hear the crictism and benefit by it and at times we need to let it roll off our backs.

White: Were there any surprises?

Chandler: I don't know that this was a surprise, perhaps more the validating of an assumption. There is a tremendous credibility that comes from practitioners. We all know the necessity of academic learning. The place of the professor is undisputed. But I also knew intuitively that there is something vital to be learned from the guy who is out here figuring out what needs to be done next and then how to do it. We might call this the difference between the experts and the learners. In practical terms, it may be like comparing the role of the surgeon and the nurse practitioner.

I'm thinking of Steve Chang, [pastor of a Virginia Baptist church in Fairfax called The Light Global Mission Church] who clearly defined courageous leadership. I had asked him where courage is require for the leader. His response says exactly what I'm talking about. Chang says, “If you go to the place where you personally have been before, then you are a guide or a Sherpa, but not a leader. Each time my congregation had to make a faith decision, it is also the same faith decision for me personally. I have no idea of what's ahead! I haven't seen it; I haven't been there; this is new territory; this is uncharted territory for me. But I have to show my confidence and faith in the Lord. I also have to show my people that they can trust God by showing how I trust God. When I turn around and face my people, I don't show nervousness. I show a face of calm. But when I turn around and face the direction we are heading, it can be despairing or terrifying. Those are the moments when the leader needs courage the most.”

White: What do you hope the typical pastor will learn from these examples?

Chandler:Typical pastors tend to be a mile deep and an inch wide because of the pressures put on them by their congregations. Their entire view tends to be so focused on their local congregations that they miss seeing beyond the current issue they are dealing with. It's like looking at the corner of the window rather than seeing the view beyond. I hope the book will help them see beyond the window.