Donald Trump did not appear at his trial in New York City, where he was accused of raping and defaming author E. Jean Carroll. He did testify under oath, however, in a deposition with Carroll’s lawyer, Roberta Kaplan, at Mar-a-Lago in October 2022.
In videos of that interview, Trump claims Carroll’s allegations are “a big fat hoax,” that she’s “not my type in any way, shape or form,” that her lawyer is a “disgrace” and, by the way, also is not his type.
Robert Sellers
During the hours-long deposition, Trump argues the claim by Carroll is “pure fiction” and a ploy by a “wacko” to sell her lame book. Kaplan asks Trump about his social media post in which he argued Carroll says she “swooned” inside the Bergdorf Goodman dressing room when he assaulted her. Kaplan explains that “swoon” means “to faint with extreme emotion,” to which Trump responds: “Well, sort of that’s what she said I did to her. She fainted with great emotion. She actually indicated that she loved it, OK? She loved it until commercial break. In fact, I think she said it was sexy, didn’t she? She said it was very sexy to be raped. Didn’t she say that?”
To be clear, Trump was referring to a 2019 interview Carroll had with CNN’s Anderson Cooper, when she said Trump had “hurt” her and what he did was “not sexual.” She did suggest that “most people think of rape as sexy,” because “of the fantasies,” but never said she thought Trump’s attack was sexy but that, instead, she had to fight him to protect herself.
The former president’s extreme misrepresentation of what Carroll said is indicative of how he often wrongly interprets or falsely repeats something someone else has said.
When shown the infamous Access Hollywood tape of his conversation on a bus with Billy Bush in 2005, Trump repeats his excuse of “locker room talk.” In that video, Trump says he might start kissing the woman he and Bush were about to meet. He explains: “I’m automatically attracted to beautiful women — I don’t even wait, it’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. … Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.”
When asked in the deposition if it is common for stars to touch women so intimately, Trump explains “that over the last million years … unfortunately or fortunately,” people who are considered “stars” could grab women sexually without their consent.”
Then he claims he is a star — which means, I suppose, he believes that, fortunately, he is permitted to assault women.
I have two major problems with Trump’s rationale, other than his obvious, ridiculous reference to a “million years” of history of stars’ sexual misbehavior.
The first problem is that Trump considers himself a star.
In the field of entertainment, he is certainly not recognized as a “star” alongside former Hollywood stars, as identified by the American Film Institute. Their list of the 50 “stars” of stage and screen begins with Humphrey Bogart, Cary Grant, James Stewart, Marlon Brando, Fred Astaire, Henry Fonda and Clark Gable. Trump is not anywhere on the list.
Neither, I would argue, is he a star today, classified alongside living entertainment icons such as Clint Eastwood, Denzel Washington, Tom Hanks, Morgan Freeman, Robert De Niro or George Clooney.
“He is a celebrity and not a star.”
He is a celebrity and not a star. At most, Trump is a rather minor television celebrity, having hosted his own game show, The Apprentice, for 14 seasons, after which he was fired by NBC during his campaign for president because of his disparaging remarks about Mexican immigrants.
He is not grouped with the famous game show hosts, not Regis Philbin, Bob Barker, Pat Sajak, Steve Harvey — and especially not Alex Trebek.
In terms of his stardom as a business magnate, Trump’s record of failed projects, bankruptcies and litigations over unpaid bills, racist policies and other failures do not make him a business “star.” He is no Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Elon Musk, Michael Bloomberg or George Soros.
Likewise, as a former president — although he likes to compare himself favorably to Abraham Lincoln — his shameful record as the only U.S. president ever impeached twice certainly does not put him in the “star” category.
Except for his clear ability to raise the volume and adoration level of rally crowds or to galvanize the behaviors of angry mobs or violent white supremacists, Trump is no political star.
The second problem is it is not only stars who feel entitled to sexually assault women.
“It is not only stars who feel entitled to sexually assault women.”
It may be true that some entertainers, business magnates and even presidents have behaved this way before. But they are not the only ones.
So have dictators. So have potentates. So have rogue soldiers. So have slave owners. So have human traffickers. So have sexual predators of many kinds.
In the Bible, early stories of Abraham reveal he introduced his beautiful wife Sarah to royal figures as his sister, fearing that the Egyptian Pharoah (Genesis 12:10-20) — and later Abimelech, king of Gerar (Genesis 20:1-18) — would kill him to take her into their harems. Abraham was legitimately frightened, although his solution to the potential threat was illegitimate. Nonetheless, he was correct that the powerful men in his world could do with women as they wished.
That same self-confidence and unchallenged entitlement that terrified Abraham is exactly what drove King David to take Bathsheba into his bed and then to arrange for Uriah the Hittite to be killed on the front lines of battle to cover up his adulterous crimes (2 Samuel 11:2-17).
Some evangelicals love to compare Trump and King David, stating that both were flawed men used by God. But Trump’s similarity to David does not involve his being “a man after God’s own heart,” like David (1 Samuel 13:14). Trump is like the king only in the sense that he gives himself permission to take whatever or whomever he desires and expects there to be no consequences, because he is rich and powerful.
Donald Trump is not in good company when he claims he is a star who may assault women like E. Jean Carroll. That sense of entitlement and its resulting violent behavior places the former president in the same category with criminals. Is that really “fortunate” for him?
It certainly doesn’t make him a worthy candidate to become our nation’s ultimate leader.
Rob Sellers is professor of theology and missions emeritus at Hardin-Simmons University’s Logsdon Seminary in Abilene, Texas. He is a past chair of the board of the Parliament of the World’s Religions in Chicago. He and his wife, Janie, served a quarter century as missionary teachers in Indonesia. They have two children and five grandchildren.
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