Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Jonathan Eig

Jonathan Eig is the New York Times bestselling author of six books, including Ali: A Life, Opening Day: The Story of Jackie Robinson’s First Season, and the Pulitzer Prize-winning King: A Life. His biography of King is thought of by many (including me) as the definitive biography of the civil rights leader, and it benefits from the release of FBI files, which I asked him about in our interview. Jon’s Jewish faith has informed his choices of subject and affected how he approached them. As he told Chicago Magazine, “I’m Jewish and that also makes me feel like an outsider. Jewish people are often reminded that they share a history of oppression with African Americans, which is one reason so many Jewish people were involved in the Civil Rights Movement. For me, it’s mostly about storytelling. Slavery and its aftermath are central to our story as a nation.” I’m so grateful to Jon for his time, and for his inspiring responses about what we can learn from Dr. King about how we too might resist and persist in a time of prejudice and injustice.

Greg Garrett: You say early on in your book that one of your aims is to take the sainted Dr. King and reclaim his humanity. Some folks object to a portrait that includes his humanity and foibles. What do we lose when we treat him as the postage stamp or national holiday? Why did you feel it was so important to present him in his entirety?

Jonathan Eig

Jonathan Eig: When we treat any hero as a postage stamp, we limit them to two dimensions. We honor their acts of heroism without the necessary context to understand how they summoned and maintained their courage. We overlook their struggles, their errors, their doubts. And in doing so, we lose any real hope of connection. How can we expect any of us flawed humans to attempt daring and dangerous acts if our only role models are perfectly crafted idols? Moreover, I think we all can recognize that King’s greatness never can be canceled by a few flaws. I think most readers have enough intelligence and enough grace to accept imperfect heroes.

GG: King had to negotiate not only local churches and governments but national movements and administrations. He had to gain and keep access — and also to call Presidents Kennedy and Johnson to major actions. What can King teach us about how to move institutions large and small toward justice? How do the things King preached and practiced speak to our current moment?

JE: King was criticized by certain activists for cooperating with government officials. A sense of pragmatism helped him accept that criticism. In order to have the maximum impact, to change the most lives, save the most souls, lift up the most poor people, end the most abusive legal practices, and so on, King believed he needed to work through the channels of government. For today’s protesters, I think the lesson should be clear: It’s OK to make noise and seek attention, but protest is most effective when that noise and attention is tied to calls for concrete policy change.

GG: Your book is the first King biography to be able to benefit from a multitude of sources now available, including King’s FBI files. What do these new sources teach us about the era and King? What lessons can you draw for us about what it means for the government to use law enforcement to go after its adversaries?

JE: The newly released FBI files tell us more of what we already knew: that law enforcement was used as a tool of terror and fear to keep oppressed people in check. More specifically, this latest batch of documents helps make clear that J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI did not act alone, that high-ranking officials signed off on and encouraged the campaign of harassment, and that members of the media were aware and complicit in their silence. Government then and now justifies its actions by treating protesters and activists as traitors, by confusing ideological beliefs with patriotism.

“Government then and now justifies its actions by treating protesters and activists as traitors, by confusing ideological beliefs with patriotism.”

GG: I’m very interested in Robert F. Kennedy, who was attorney general under his brother, a presidential candidate, and a white man who stood up in a Black neighborhood in Indianapolis on the night of MLK’s shooting to mourn with those gathered there. What were the biggest challenges in the relationship between King and the Kennedys? What do you notice about RFK’s journey with MLK that might be encouraging for us these days?

JE: RFK lacked the courage to stand up to J. Edgar Hoover, as did a lot of other people. But I have the feeling RFK was troubled by his own failure and wanted to do better. He and his brother wrestled with the perennial dilemma facing politicians: how far to go along the path of moral righteousness when that path seems to be leading away from re-election. I’d like to think that RFK, had he lived longer, would have shown greater moral courage on issues related to race but, as his political ambitions grew, he might have hedged his bets.

GG: If you could boil down why MLK matters now, what would you tell my readers? What did you learn about King or about America in the course of your research and writing that surprised or delighted you?

JE: King matters now because he believed in something bigger than himself — so much so that he was willing to die for his cause. He matters now because he reminds us that one doesn’t have to be perfect to be perfectly brave. I was surprised how much he suffered. How sad he felt. How lonely. Martin Luther King Jr. died believing no one was listening to him anymore. That crushes me. At the same time, he never lost hope. You know what delighted me? His warmth. His humor. His love for people. He would look you in the eye, he would really listen, he would touch your arm as you spoke. He liked to start his sentences with the word “yes,” stretched out long and soft, “yessssss,” to affirm what you just said.

“King matters now because he believed in something bigger than himself.”

GG: Where are you finding hope and meaning at the present moment? What are you reading, watching, hearing, doing that is helping you make sense of the world and justify your place in it?

JE: Where do I find hope? From King, of course. From people who’ve survived far worse times than I probably ever will face, and who continue to have hope and show love. From my friend Wilbert Rideau, who spent more than 40 years in Louisiana prisons and who somehow still sees the good in the world. From the Holocaust survivor I met last year who told me, “I would have hung myself from a lamppost a long time ago if I didn’t have hope in humanity.” I still believe most people are good. Really good. I find hope by telling stories, because I think we need stories like we need air, and stories can help us stand together.

Greg Garrett

Greg Garrett is an award-winning professor at Baylor University, where he is the Carole McDaniel Hanks Professor of Literature and Culture. One of America’s leading voices on religion and culture, he is the author of 30 books, most recently the novel Bastille Day and The Gospel According to James Baldwin: What America’s Great Prophet Can Teach Us about Life, Love, and Identity. He is currently administering a major research grant on racism from the Eula Mae and John Baugh Foundation and finishing a book on racist mythologies for Oxford University Press. Greg is a seminary-trained lay preacher in the Episcopal Church and Honorary Canon Theologian at the American Cathedral of the Holy Trinity in Paris. He lives in Austin with his wife, Jeanie, and their two daughters.

More from this series:

Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Greg Jarrell

Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Robert G. Callahan II

Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Andrea Russell

Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Bishop Michael Curry

Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Melissa Deckman

Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Matthew D. Taylor

Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Nancy French

Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Robert P. Jones

Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Brian Kaylor

Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Colin Allred

Politics, faith and mission: A conversation with Tia Levings