In fight against patriarchy, women ‘are not listened to’

As armed National Guardsmen begin patrolling the streets of our cities at the command of President Donald Trump, many Americans are waking up to the deadly dangers of toxic white male domination bent on violent authority.

But there is one seemingly invisible group of women who are neither impressed nor surprised by what Trump and Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth are doing. They’ve been watching Hegseth’s spiritual advisers for years and warning us all from the rolling hills of Moscow, Idaho.

That’s home base for Pastor Doug Wilson, who is attempting to impose on his Idaho town the kind of theocracy he believes should rule all of America. Wilson is an unapologetic Christian nationalist.

“In some ways, I’m still stuck here in Moscow trying to save Moscow,” Sarah Bader told me in an interview for Episode 52 of “Highest Power: Church + State,” which will be released by Baptist News Global this Thursday evening.

One of Bader’s confidants for many years has been Sarah Stankorb, a journalist and the author of Disobedient Women. In an interview with BNG for Episode 48 of “Highest Power: Church + State,” Stankorb reflected: “We conceive Christian nationalism as this idea, this ideology that’s kind of sweeping. But for people in communities like Moscow, it is real and it is every day.”

Feeling the pain Wilson and his men have perpetrated, Bader laments: “The ship has sunk. And I can’t give it up. But I do understand the issue’s bigger. So for me it’s really a reminder that Moscow really screwed up. And my hope is that we as a community can heal. But I don’t think we’ll ever get back what we gave up.”

Bader is the majority owner of a podcast called “Sons of Patriarchy,” which is hosted by Peter Bell and features many stories of women who have left the grip of the cult Pete Hegseth is a part of, the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches — also known as CREC — which was co-founded by Doug Wilson.

In the vision of the patriarchs from Wilson’s Christ Church, women are to remain silent and submissive to men. These men made headlines nationwide this month after CNN released an interview where Wilson said women were “the kind of people that people come out of,” while his fellow pastors promoted the idea of household voting, in which the man casts the vote for the household. According to Pentagon chief spokesman Sean Parnell, Hegseth “very much appreciates many of Mr. Wilson’s writings and teachings.”

So as Wilson’s teaching spreads, is there any hope for our community to heal?

‘The Sons of Patriarchy’

Bader’s podcast, “The Sons of Patriarchy,” represents a rather unique community. Bader identifies very comfortably as an atheist, while Bell reluctantly embraces the term “evangelical.” Despite their very different views about theology, they’ve managed to bring together people from a variety of theological and political persuasions for the purpose of listening to and amplifying the voices of the women who have been harmed by Wilson and his patriarchs.

On Aug. 8 and 9, just after the CNN interview aired, Wilson’s Christ Church hosted its biggest event of the year, known as Grace Agenda, a weekend of “feasting and merriment” for all who would bend the knee to their patriarchy.

Because Wilson’s men silence the voices of all who won’t submit to them, Bader and Bell decided to host a separate event at the Kenworthy Performing Arts Center in downtown Moscow. They were joined by 300 local residents of Moscow to amplify the voices of the silenced.

Bell was joined onstage by Sarah Stankorb for a live podcast recording and Q&A. After the Q&A, they hung out with the community at an after party for more interaction.

Bell explained in our interview: “It’s connecting the media arm with those on the ground, which is what we were trying to do in Moscow. We have connections with these people. We have some of the platform. But we can help connect them with the platform.”

By all accounts from Bader, Bell and Stankorb, the event was a healing opportunity for the people of Moscow to come together across their differences and share their concerns about how Christ Church’s quest for power is harming their neighbors.

Community amidst trauma and distrust

While it is encouraging to see atheists and evangelicals coming together to amplify the voices of the marginalized, being together can be difficult for many of us to navigate in light of the trauma of our experiences.

Given the scope of the harm that’s being perpetrated on our nation, Kristin Du Mez was right in suggesting in the aftermath of the Sons of Patriarchy event: “We need complementarian men fighting this. We need progressive women fighting this. We need all of us who see the harm to say something and do something.”

Saving our democracy needs to be a democratic pursuit with all hands on deck.

But there’s a vulnerability in sitting at this table because we all wear the wounds of patriarchy. All our veins have been infected by its poison to varying degrees. And we’re in different stages of healing.

So even if we resonate with Bader’s hope that our community can heal, our very presence together here means hierarchy will unveil itself at some point. And when it does, we can’t get defensive from a desire to be considered pure because purity is the assumption of the powerful, the idol of the white male supremacist patriarchy that has enthroned itself in Washington, D.C.

For the sons and daughters of patriarchy to become the mothers and fathers who heal, we must follow the bravery of women like Bader and Stankorb. If we don’t heal by opening to the truth of things, we’ll never get back what we gave up.

From ‘dueling events’ to a faceoff with Wilson

One of the haunting reflections of patriarchy I began to notice in this story was in the picture Du Mez shared of Bader and Bell confronting Wilson at a block party during the Sons of Patriarchy weekend in Moscow. In the image, Wilson stands tense, staring directly into the eyes of Bell. What bothered me was two-fold: the face to face focus of the men paired with the seeming invisibility of Bader.

In an interview with BNG, Stankorb noted the photo and added, “When I asked (Bader) about approaching (Wilson) and walking through Grace Agenda, she told me how she was rammed and pushed into by (Wilson’s) men as the two cut a path through the outdoor gathering. Maybe Bell didn’t notice (he’s much bigger than Bader), but she felt the physical shoves and stood her ground. To top it off, in response to that photo, I read one commenter who wondered what her husband thought of the length of her shorts. Seriously.”

During my interview with Bader, she confirmed Wilson wouldn’t acknowledge her.

But the breaking news from their confrontation was that Wilson reportedly agreed to a one-on-one with Bell.

Statements from Bell began to appear in news articles like:

• “I know his theology about as well as anyone else.”
• “We wanted Moscow during Grace Agenda to be more known for Sons of Patriarchy than Christ Church.”
• “We’re the bully of the bullies.”

Multiple outlets began branding the event as a duel, a face-off or a debate between the two men. And where was Bader in all this? Where were the women who have been harmed? They seemed invisible to me. It was beginning to feel like an old Mark Driscoll and James MacDonald “Elephant Room” face-off from 2011, which was an event organized by toxic patriarchal pastors where men would go head to head debating their theology.

And come to find out, Bell was an intern under Driscoll from 2011 to 2014.

The invisibility of Bader, the centering of Bell and the face-off between two men began to feel all too familiar to me. So I reached out to Bell and shared my concerns with him.

“It’s not the podcast itself that we want people to care about, it’s the stories on the podcast that we want people to care about,” he clarified. “I’d rather people not know my name.”

At the very least, Bell responded with an openness to listen rather than with a defensiveness like many influencers do.

The pressure of being a savior

In the wake of their event in Moscow during Grace Agenda, Bader and Bell began getting inundated with messages from people all over the nation wanting to share their trauma.

As an atheist, Bader cares less about the theology of the conversation and more about the crimes that have been committed against women. But because much of the basis for the abuse is theological, she wants to have someone who can speak to the theology involved.

“I believe Peter can hold Doug accountable in a way many others theologically can’t,” she said. “The other side of it is that Doug refuses to acknowledge women.”

Remember the photo in Du Mez’s article? Wilson won’t even look at Bader. It’s all set up for Bader needing a man to get anything done.

At the same time, Bader said even women who leave these CREC churches are so shaped by only speaking to men about theology that many of them won’t speak to her either. They simply want to talk to Bell.

“The women just don’t get far,” Bader said. “I’ve been doing this work for a decade. I know others who have been doing this work for a decade. We are not listened to.”

So with all the weight of being considered a savior, Bell began to crack.

The post

“I, Peter, feel compelled to write this post,” Bell began on the “Sons of Patriarchy” Facebook account Aug. 23. “I write it both to get it off my chest, to give Doug Wilson and his people the dirt they’re probably looking for, and to dissuade anyone from thinking I’m the ‘anti-patriarchy’ hero they might think I am.”

He went on to admit he was “addicted to porn for a little less than 20 years” and still struggles “to this day.”He also admitted being “fired from two or three ‘secular jobs’ … for lying, and covering up other things, in rather large ways.”

He admitted to being “kicked out” of ministry positions for lying. Due to relational struggles with his wife related to his porn usage, lying, passivity and inequality with her, the two separated. But then Bell started hosting the “Sons of Patriarchy” podcast and said, “The entire first season of ‘Sons of Patriarchy’ was published during my separation.” During this past year, Bell said, he and his wife have gotten back together.

According to Bell, he was “throttled” out of the patriarchy. But was he?

The fallout

Hundreds of comments began pouring in throughout social media. Some people were inspired by Bell’s honesty, even calling for him to be entered into the Hebrews 11 Hall of Faith or comparing him to the Apostle Paul. Others were horrified and said his words reminded them of their abusive ex-husbands or pastors.

Then Bader posted on the “Sons of Patriarchy” account: “Peter made his post because he was concerned at the feedback that he was some kind of hero figure to many of you. As you all can now tell, he’s not.”

“He did not run this post by the team. And we are holding him to account for it.”

“He did not run this post by the team,” she added. “And we are holding him to account for it.”

Then she added, “We apologize to our survivor community for his actions and are putting measures and controls into place so that it can’t happen again. We failed many of you — even though it was meant well — and we are especially apologetic to those of you who were rightly triggered by this disclosure.”

In our interview for Thursday’s episode of “Highest Power: Church + State,” Bader added: “Peter is still deconstructing from what patriarchy has done to these men. I think he is a good example of really how crappy the system is. … I think that post yesterday from Peter was a response to just, ‘Look, I’m a human being too.’”

Sarah Stankorb’s statement

Sarah Stankorb issued her own statement to BNG:

“The Moscow event went so well and meant a lot to that community. I worry, in light of Peter Bell’s post, we’re losing the thread,” she said.

Because Stankorb has worked with the women of Moscow for years, appeared on stage with Bell and understands the implications of Moscow’s patriarchy for our nation, I wanted her to have the space to share her thoughts, especially in light of the vulnerabilities so many on the underside of patriarchy feel. Here is her statement in full.

Christian nationalism is a danger, not only to us nationally, but as it plays out in everyday people’s lives. It comes paired with Christian patriarchy, a form of dominion I know from far too many first-hand accounts hurts women. It hurts children. It hurts men too. I do see some of that in Bell’s post. He seems to have wanted to show the damage he carries. I worry doing so comes at the cost of the survivors who should be at the center of this conversation, because they offer warning about what this model of faith does to people — though, I suppose, in a way, Bell’s confession (the details and that he evidently posted it without consulting his team) demonstrates some of that too. It blindsided a lot of survivors and other advocates whose trust is already fragile. It also has created a huge distraction from the work of making Wilson’s impact visible.

I find myself torn. I watched comments flood in on Facebook in response to his post, mostly positive, glowing in the way I’ve seen too many times when men in evangelical circles reckon with mistakes or wrongdoing. It is a reactive warmth I know is connected to theologies of confession and forgiveness, but also one that in other contexts, I’ve seen absolutely skip over reckoning with what went wrong.

“Women have been declaring the damage for years.”

It was this pattern that disturbed me the most. Then when Sarah Bader, whom I have covered twice (for VICE and Disobedient Women), posted a statement afterward, I saw a split among “Sons of Patriarchy’s” followers. Some survivors were grateful, but there was a lot of pushback, calling Bader’s response — which was compassionate to Bell and survivors who were upset by his post — “woke.” Or people didn’t want to hear from a woman.

The whole thing replicates what has happened over and over among people coming out of communities like this. Women have been declaring the damage for years. But something about a man holding the mic — even when it was women survivors talking into it — made the warnings more palatable to people who were steeped in Christian patriarchy.

On one level, I understand. This is how they view the world. By habit, they elevate men.

On another, it is so, so frustrating. Those who were most oppressed within the system have the most to teach us. Bader and others have been shouldering the work on an ongoing, daily basis for years and years far beyond the podcast and instead, just helping survivors meet their basic needs. Why is transparency about problem behavior by a man lauded, and she’s so often invisible?

I see something rather rare in how she handled all this. It is clear she has a deep friendship with Bell, that she wants to give him space to figure things out, and that she is shouldering the mess as she always has done, while also continuing to do and deal with the toll of incredibly difficult work. No one person — of whatever gender — is going to save us from Christian nationalism or Christian patriarchy. To tackle such entrenched worldviews takes discipline and teamwork. Bader is exhibiting those traits with aplomb.

Yet the overall public response shows how much men are needed within the movement to confront and dismantle Christian patriarchy. Especially some who have dedicated as many years deconstructing the ideology that can otherwise make a person blind to their own limitations. But good grief, can we also acknowledge the women who have been doing it all along — those who already had to overcome a subculture that didn’t value them as much?

And when things get messy — and they do get messy, because most advocates have themselves been hurt by these teachings — can we notice how often women get stuck cleaning up those messes too? That’s also part of centering survivors.

 

Rick Pidcock is a 2004 graduate of Bob Jones University, with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Bible. He’s a freelance writer based in South Carolina and a former Clemons Fellow with BNG. He completed a Master of Arts degree in worship from Northern Seminary. He is a stay-at-home father of five children and produces music under the artist name Provoke Wonder. Follow his blog at www.rickpidcock.com.